Here's a taste:
"Ellul's basic thesis is that the Kingdom Jesus inaugurated with his life, death and resurrection has been subverted -- converted into its opposite, in fact -- in the religion of Christendom. This happened primarily because leaders in the 4th and 5th century decided to give into the temptation that Jesus resisted (Lk 4:5-7) -- namely, acquiring political power (thus, submitting to the devil's authority). Christianity thus was co-opted by "the powers." A movement that was in its very essence non-conformist became a religion of conformity. Indeed, Christianity has historically usually been a defender of the status quo ("conservative")."
14 comments:
no - i don't; i am increasingly finding christianity to be a sect(s) that emerged in the name of jesus and i am increasingly thinking that such is not what jesus intended! i continue to be open to the possibility of the spirit-of-god leading some to incarnate the good-news in the midst of the sectarian-world.
blessings,
rob
Rob, as I know you will agree....Jesus is the only foundation that has been laid. HE IS THE ONLY FOUNDATION. But, if the filter through which we see him is wrong, we very might well find the things we are supporting to actually be set against him and his kingdom.
i am thinking that all of our filters have some right and some wrong elements. i am thinking we can lean into god to help us fall less and less into that which is not harmonious with the beautiful-realm-of-god.
Rob, as Ellul speaks so often about, unless we are freed from the life of independence and (re)turn to the life we were created for...dependence on God...there is no harmony...there is only misery or for many, a life of denial, an adventure in missing the point.
our design is not one wherein a neglect of the maker is a viable option, such is death, such is slavery, such is loss. god belongs at the center; without a doubt.
blessings,
rob
No, I certainly don't want to be a stinkin' Christian :)
And that's even before listening to Greg talk about the Jacquester, Kentster.
I'm going to read some Ellul some day.....but the collection "resist the powers" might be more my speed....ha ha!
I've had thick works like Augustines confessions for 5 years or so now and I'm still only half way through ha ha!
peace,
T
In unrelated news ...
Happy birthday Kentster! (It's tomorrow, isn't it, from memory? The 16th? Well, it's the 16th here so I'm just getting in early :)
Thanks Sue and Todd for the Happy Birthday wishes. Actually Sue it is today the 15th. It why me and Dr. King are so tight. Born on the same day.
Well, then, Kentster, HAPPY BIRTHDAY FOR TODAY!!
And say geday to the Kingster when you get on your direct hotline to him later on to wish him a happy birthday. (Insert Stevie Wonder song here - don't you love the sentiments of that cutest of cute songs :)
This is interesting.
Todd,
I've read The Confessions of St. Augustine, but what was surprising to me after having read it and coming away with a picture of what he was like....was to then follow his life and see how his thoughts played out in reality.
All of the early "Church Fathers" were just wrong in many respects. I don't blame them, because God was in the process of changing them and it really is hard to teach a dog new tricks sometimes....including myself.
I just don't get why so many people think the early Church Fathers should be followed. I guess that's where the whole Catholic/Protestant wars came from.
It seems that their mistakes should be up-front-news so Christians are not led astray by thinking they were holy. Their views about women were ghastly and toward children...not so good.
...and some thought on your post Kent:
I think God used the political power which has been abused by Christianity for good. Not that the abuse was good or that God wanted it to pan out that way, but history shows that every area touched by Christianity has become generally peaceful and has allowed for the betterment of man....but I wonder what it could have been like if Jesus had been the center all along.
A good friend told me, "hind sight is not 20/20. God allows the past to bring us to where we are and form us into who we are becoming".
Maybe..maybe, we are only where we are because of how history has played out. And maybe it just takes time for God's Kingdom to be a united force in the world?
Looking at the formation and history of Rome, it seems apparent that by their power they were able to establish a well organized and routed land in which the gospel could spread...then after the fall of Rome, it was Charlemagne with the Pope (who's name I can't remember) who basically designed Europe...a united area of many people groups. Then it was the Pilgrims who made a successful colony..instead of the fortune seekers at Jamestown...It was Livingston who basically mapped Africa (not that all good came from it) so there was access....
It seems that God uses and even orchestrates these events to bring about more avenues for the news of Jesus to go out.
Is it possible for this global community to have developed without conquering? I'm not sure. Maybe God is removing all physical boundaries so that everyone who has ears to hear will hear, and because He is working with us, who are so obstinate sometimes, He just allows us to have our way at times and then uses the outcome to accomplish His will. ??
Just some thoughts on the political history of Christianity and what I've been pondering along these lines.
Jennifer, I believe God will use anything. We know there is a purpose being worked out through nations. For me though it is really more about letting world powers (nations) be what they are and the people who are being set free through Christ to be what they are to be.
When the religion that identifies itself with Jesus invokes the name of God to justify force,power-over and violence it ends up standing for something Jesus never stood for. When that happens it just seems that it has now become aligned with the same world powers that put Jesus to death. And when Jesus stood before those powers he specifically spelled out that his kingdom those in his kingdom ddn't operate that way.
St. Augustine seemed to disagree with that and then gave us "Just War Theory" and that has just deepened the confusion.
Kent,
I totally agree with what you're saying.
I love what you said about letting people who are following Christ to be what they are.
This sounds like a very interesting book, Kent. There seems to be alot of evidence of Christian Subversion as early as the 1st and 2nd Centuries as well.
I have spent many of my earlier years, endeavouring to get people on a similiar journey to me to read the many other early christian text, that exist outside of bible. (I've pretty much read 80% of them now) These texts often show at the least, the diversity and movement of Christianity in it's very early stages. Also these text show how existing belief systems of various cultures intergrated into Christianity.
For me, the benefit of reading these texts gave me much encouragement in the exploration of this journey. They offer a greater picture on the challenges and trials that the early church faced. :)
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